problema pila per icoride

the mons

Kalle ha scritto:

Ci sono due tipi di abilità innescate.

La prima sono quelle del tipo: "When/Whenever/At" <evento di innesco>, <effetto>.
In questo caso NON ci sono condizioni da verificare, semplicemente quando avviene l'evento di innesco, l'abilità si innesca e "va in pila".
[s]Quella dell'Ichorid ricade in questa tipologia (la rimozione di una creatura nera è parte dell'effetto, che verrà eseguita solo quando l'abilità si risolverà).[/s]

La seconda sono quelle del tipo: "When/Whenever/At" <evento di innesco>, "if" <condizione>, <effetto>.
In questo caso la condizione deve essere verificata sia quando avviene l'evento di innesco (se NON è verificata in questo momento allora nulla va in pila), sia quando l'abilità si dovrà risolvere.
Quelle di Ichorid e Oath ricadono in questa tipologia.
Per Ichorid la condizione è che Ichorid sia nel cimitero (NON rimuovere una creatura nera, quella fa parte dell'effetto):

"At" <the beginning of your upkeep>, "if" <Ichorid is in your graveyard>, <you may remove a black creature card in your graveyard other than Ichorid from the game. If you do, return Ichorid to play.>

Per Oath è di avere un numero di creature inferiore al tuo avversario.

"At" <the beginning of each player's upkeep>, "if" <that player controls fewer creatures than any of his or her opponents>, <the player may reveal cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and all other cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard.>

EDIT by Kalle: grazie Saverio che mi ricorda il testo di Ichorid.

grandissimo kalle,ora ho capito perfettamente.
grazie per la esauriente spiegazione.
MonS

Milos

scusate ragazzi continuo a non capire... molto semplice mana bazaar icoride e due draganti nel cimitero...

secondo turno... non ho creature nere... voglio rimettere icoride.. posso dragare con bazaar per ottenere creatura nera e soloo dopo mettere icordide in gioco??

vi prego non sto capendo... sto litigando con gli inglesi di magic work station!!!

Kalle

Sì puoi.
Il perchè nelle 10 risposte precedenti.

DarkfnTemplar2 · **Iscritto il:** gio 20 nov 2008, 22:02 **Messaggi:** 2

Hello, my name is Nick Calcaterra. I placed third at the vintage world championships in 2007 playing Ichorid.

I just "finished" a match with "Milos".

For some reason he thought you could bring an ichorid into play the turn it was dredged out. The answer is no, but he pointed me to the website as evidence as he could.

Yes, you may dredge for a black creature IF ichorid is already in your yard, but not before.
Here's the logs:
Milos untaps Bazaar of Baghdad
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
<Milos> upkeep
Milos taps Bazaar of Baghdad
Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll into play from Graveyard
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp into play from Library
Milos puts Chalice of the Void into play from Library
Milos puts Bazaar of Baghdad into play from Library
Milos puts Careful Study into play from Library
Milos puts Cabal Therapy into play from Library
Milos puts Bridge from Below into play from Library
Milos puts Chalice of the Void to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Bazaar of Baghdad to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Careful Study to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Cabal Therapy to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Bridge from Below to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll to Hand from Play
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp into play from Graveyard
Milos puts Careful Study into play from Library
Milos puts Ichorid into play from Library
Milos puts Force of Will into play from Library
Milos puts Dread Return into play from Library
Milos puts Unmask into play from Library
Milos puts Narcomoeba into play from Library
Milos puts Ichorid to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Careful Study to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Force of Will to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Dread Return to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Unmask to Graveyard from Play
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Hand from Play
Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll to Graveyard from Hand
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Graveyard from Hand
Milos puts Ichorid into play from Graveyard
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp into play from Graveyard
Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to RFG from Play
<DarkfnTemplar> no
<Milos> yes in my ypkeepo
<DarkfnTemplar> Read ichorid
<DarkfnTemplar> again
<Milos> yes man
<Milos> in my upkeep
<DarkfnTemplar> "at the beginning"
<Milos> i active bazaar in respose
<Milos> of my upkeep
<DarkfnTemplar> You had a stinkweed and a troll at the begining
<DarkfnTemplar> no ichorid
<Milos> wai
<Milos> t
<DarkfnTemplar> Buddy I got third at worlds with that deck, i know what im talking about
<Milos> i send you the rules
<DarkfnTemplar> lol
<Milos> wait
<DarkfnTemplar> You dredge him out THIS TURN!
<DarkfnTemplar> He has to be in the yard already
<Milos> http://www.tipo1.it/forum/viewtopic.php ... bazaar+ico

Judge, please explain to him why he is wrong.

Sorry for assuming you can all understand English. I don't mean to be arrogant. While I'm an Italian-American, I speak little to no Italian at all. However, I was able to register on this site...

Alifromcairo · **Iscritto il:** lun 7 mag 2007, 10:51 **Messaggi:** 881

@
DarkfnTemplar2 : you are right,obviously.

@Milos: Se Icoride non è nel tuo cimitero all'inizio del mantenimento,la sua abilità non si innescherà.. nei post precedenti si parlava di mettere nel cimitero la creatura da rimuvere per rimetterlo in gioco,che è una cosa ben diversa.

Milos

su queso avete assolutamente ragione... ma io avevo icoride in cimitero.. mica so matto...

Kalle

Hi Nick!
You and Milos both know the rule.
He says he had an Ichorid in the graveyard from the previous turn. You say he didn't.
Check the logs to find the truth.

DarkfnTemplar2 · **Iscritto il:** gio 20 nov 2008, 22:02 **Messaggi:** 2

0:00:07 [Milos] Milos rolled a 20, using a 20 sided die
0:00:07 [Milos] Milos shuffles library
0:00:08 [DarkfnTemplar] DarkfnTemplar shuffles library
0:00:08 [Milos] <Milos> pl
0:00:09 [Milos] Milos shuffles library
0:00:09 [DarkfnTemplar] DarkfnTemplar draws 7 cards
0:00:10 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:10 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:11 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:11 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:12 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:12 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:13 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:24 [Milos] Milos takes a mulligan
0:00:27 [Milos] Milos takes a mulligan
0:00:29 [Milos] Milos takes a mulligan
0:00:31 [Milos] Milos takes a mulligan
0:00:33 [Milos] Milos takes a mulligan
0:00:34 [Milos] Milos takes a mulligan
0:00:37 [Milos] <Milos> ok
0:00:38 [DarkfnTemplar] <DarkfnTemplar> keep
0:00:38 [Milos] Milos plays Bazaar of Baghdad from Hand
0:00:40 [Milos] Milos taps Bazaar of Baghdad
0:00:41 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:41 [DarkfnTemplar] <DarkfnTemplar> lol!
0:00:41 [Milos] Milos draws a card
0:00:43 [Milos] Milos plays Stinkweed Imp from Hand
0:00:43 [Milos] Milos plays Golgari Grave-Troll from Hand
0:00:43 [DarkfnTemplar] <DarkfnTemplar> how lucky
0:00:48 [Milos] <Milos>

0:00:51 [DarkfnTemplar] <DarkfnTemplar> Ok
0:00:52 [Milos] Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll to Graveyard from Play
0:00:52 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Graveyard from Play
0:00:53 [Milos] <Milos> End my turn
0:00:54 [DarkfnTemplar] It is now turn 2 (DarkfnTemplar)
0:00:54 [DarkfnTemplar] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:00:56 [DarkfnTemplar] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:00:56 [DarkfnTemplar] DarkfnTemplar draws a card
0:00:56 [DarkfnTemplar] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:00:59 [DarkfnTemplar] DarkfnTemplar plays Bayou from Hand
0:01:00 [DarkfnTemplar] DarkfnTemplar taps Bayou
0:01:01 [DarkfnTemplar] DarkfnTemplar plays AEther Vial from Hand
0:01:04 [DarkfnTemplar] <DarkfnTemplar> End my turn
0:01:10 [Milos] Milos untaps Bazaar of Baghdad
0:01:12 [Milos] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:01:14 [Milos] <Milos> upkeep
0:01:16 [Milos] Milos taps Bazaar of Baghdad
0:01:17 [Milos] Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll into play from Graveyard
0:01:19 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp into play from Library
0:01:19 [Milos] Milos puts Chalice of the Void into play from Library
0:01:21 [Milos] Milos puts Bazaar of Baghdad into play from Library
0:01:22 [Milos] Milos puts Careful Study into play from Library
0:01:23 [Milos] Milos puts Cabal Therapy into play from Library
0:01:25 [Milos] Milos puts Bridge from Below into play from Library
0:01:27 [Milos] Milos puts Chalice of the Void to Graveyard from Play
0:01:28 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Graveyard from Play
0:01:28 [Milos] Milos puts Bazaar of Baghdad to Graveyard from Play
0:01:28 [Milos] Milos puts Careful Study to Graveyard from Play
0:01:28 [Milos] Milos puts Cabal Therapy to Graveyard from Play
0:01:28 [Milos] Milos puts Bridge from Below to Graveyard from Play
0:01:29 [Milos] Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll to Hand from Play
0:01:33 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp into play from Graveyard
0:01:34 [Milos] Milos puts Careful Study into play from Library
0:01:35 [Milos] Milos puts Ichorid into play from Library
0:01:36 [Milos] Milos puts Force of Will into play from Library
0:01:37 [Milos] Milos puts Dread Return into play from Library
0:01:39 [Milos] Milos puts Unmask into play from Library
0:01:40 [Milos] Milos puts Narcomoeba into play from Library
0:01:45 [Milos] Milos puts Ichorid to Graveyard from Play
0:01:45 [Milos] Milos puts Careful Study to Graveyard from Play
0:01:45 [Milos] Milos puts Force of Will to Graveyard from Play
0:01:45 [Milos] Milos puts Dread Return to Graveyard from Play
0:01:45 [Milos] Milos puts Unmask to Graveyard from Play
0:01:48 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Hand from Play
0:01:53 [Milos] Milos puts Golgari Grave-Troll to Graveyard from Hand
0:01:54 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to Graveyard from Hand
0:01:56 [Milos] Milos puts Ichorid into play from Graveyard
0:02:00 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp into play from Graveyard
0:02:04 [Milos] Milos puts Stinkweed Imp to RFG from Play
0:02:05 [DarkfnTemplar] <DarkfnTemplar> no

Case closed.[/b]

VonDoom

Spe spe, ora un dubbio viene anche a me!!!

Caso 1)
sono nel mio upkeep, gioco abilita' attivate, instant, etc etc, e alla fine faccio entrare icoride!
Questo a patto che icoride fosse gia' nel mio cimitero prima che l'altro dicesse "passo".
Corretto???

Caso 2)
sono nel mio upkeep, dico metto l'abilita' di icoride in pila, passo alla draw phase, e quindi dreggio.
A sto punto icoride non posso piu' farlo entrare.
Corretto???

Kalle

Entrambe corrette.

Baolo

Cita:

sono nel mio upkeep, gioco abilita' attivate, instant, etc etc, e alla fine faccio entrare icoride!
Questo a patto che icoride fosse gia' nel mio cimitero prima che l'altro dicesse "passo".
Corretto???

esatto

Cita:

Caso 2)
sono nel mio upkeep, dico metto l'abilita' di icoride in pila, passo alla draw phase, e quindi dreggio.
A sto punto icoride non posso piu' farlo entrare.
Corretto???

Corretto,ma se hai modo di fare finire carte (creatura nera) nel cimitero nell'upkeep puoi ancora pagare il costo e mettere in gioco ichoride.
Nella fase di pesca è troppo tardi.

Ciauz 8-)

EDITO:Preceduto da kalle,è un periodo che sono in ritardo......(cosa avra' voluto dire?) :-D

problema pila per icoride

Chi c’è in linea