Hi all again.

This thread is expected to be so *vintage* and nostalgic in his earth, I thought hard about his title far before thinking his content. Feel free to ask me "WHY this deck... AGAIN?" ...I would joke with you on this issue as much as you want, but the only last, very important reason is my love for *control* decks.

4Color control is a good old woman and I'm transfixed by his scent and tortured by his glamouring gaze.
This deck is an angry female... flustered not be played again...


Would you like a deck can stall the game enough to let you feel an unbeatable superstar for more than 20 minutes?
Would you play without the need of playing for the win?
Would you like more outplaying your opponents rather than winning games?

Ok.
You approached in a "...safe place, where nothing can harm you...
..relax, take a deep breath, and make the heartbeat slower...
9...
7..
5...
3...
1.."


There are only a few things I really enjoy playing when piloting KeepHerConfidant

(2)
R Balance
R Mindtwist


Those two things are unnaturally strong bombs.
They are not going to be missed even there, where anyone seems to play Mis.Ds or CreatureLess decks
Their drawback is so little you would cry not to have added them to you rack of possible spells

Now I have to tutor for them.
It's not an easy task, but we can try.

(5)
2 Cunning Wish
R Burning Wish
R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor


There are a lot of subtle sensations when adding slow cards to a slow deck.
Am I wrong?
Am I horribly outdated?
It is not the case.
I added Wishes because of solutions' redundancy.
I both need strong sorceries and adapt instants.
Are they a necessity? Can't I substitute them with maindeck solutions or different and quicker things?

The odd answer is YES!, of course.
Merchants, Vampiric and Intuitions can search for maindeck things better than Wishes, but I preferred them because of two reasons:
1- I don't want Vampiric Tutor maindeck, but I want to be able to search for it when needed. Sideboards are filled with Instant speed spells even if I avoid playing Wishes. I can stall the game with the rest of the deck, so I'll build on my own the time needed to sometimes resolve them
2- This deck doesn't rotate onnly around resolving BlueInstants, both defensively or aggressively speaking. I want to be able to cast as much coloured bombs I can. Mystical, B.Wish and Demonic are good tools to grab almost anything. C.Wish for Vampiric also is a good way to mimic them, when you have mana on table.

At now, I have three or four different logic paths to follow on explaining my following choices.
As usual, for the ones addicted to my writings, I will come back to the base for a while.

I'm going to describe you the most thrilling 4c-manabase ever made in years Wink

(23)
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Undeground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal


Am I fool?
No, I feel really confidant on the thinning effect Fetchlands would apply to the deck and the strong protection they are inherently offering to my ( otherwise poor ) mana base. I'm going to abuse of them as much as I can. The overall cc of the deck isn't so high ( you will see it yourself ) and not more than 2 or 3 lands are needed to start building victories.
I would not play with those lands and nothing more, but those are the ones that, *simply give me mana*

Protections and drawers are not especial choices:

(18)

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
---
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Confidant
R Ancestral Recall
R Fact or Fiction



Even the last restricted cards are an automatic addition:

(3)

R Yawgmoth's Will
R Time Walk
R Tinker


Let me count the space remainded and the needed spells to give this deck a strong, new identity
2+5+23+18+3=51
Nice!!!
I have 9 more spells to add to this bijoux!

(9)

4 Repeal
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
R Stripmine
R Timetwister



60 cards.
the work doesn't end here.
Why those cards over other ones?
Untl now, I felt really bad when playing without control board.
Shamans, Repeals, Strip, Titan and even Twister itself are board control.
Titan let me optimize at his maximum the resolution of Tinker. Have you thought since when someone would counter your tinker? Isn't it expecting something nastier than DSC? Titan steals lands. Precious Islands and different Duals. Strip itself is a strong conjuction to this Tinker effect, Twister and Y.Will are good way to enhance that effect ( not always useful ) without needing the addition of CoW, a card too slow to be played yet.

Are you going to ask me why Confidants over Whispers or Skeletals?
Confidants are beaters and chumpers.
Both these reasons let me think that in the economy of every game, dealing two more damages every turn make the final attack more easier to plan.
Am I going to attack with Confidants every turn? OF COURSE YES!!! Repeals and the other tools are perfect fits to both kill chumpers or let me deal with resolved threats.

Is the mana curve of the deck too high to support a full set of confidants? of course not! I will play them for almost forever!
Am I missing something?

YES!
SIDEBOARD CHOICES!!!

This is the sideboard I'm going to play in my future tourney:

(15)
--
2 Tormod's Crypt
--
2 Rack & Ruin
1 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gush
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Darkblast
1 Trickbind
--
3 Duress
1 Pyroclam
1 Tendrils of Agony

Ok, now I'm full, satisfied and calm!
Is my experience with the deck finished with this list?
Of course no!
I will write thousand lines on the matchups and secondary deeper descriptions of this deck's mechanic.
Nothing that can be cut-copyed from the past, but real ways to deal with modern metagame piloting ( or better... mastering ) this deck.

I will be back tomorrow.
Read and play this list before writing about doubts or problems!
I'll be here to fix them all! Wink

MaxxMatt




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I'm here again.
Thanks for the hints and suggestions, I would explain choices and reasons behind added cards in a more focused way, now.



I don't know which one would be the best for a couple of reasons:
- For my opponent, E.Truth/E.E. is simpler to setup when compared to Stifle/Trickbind. EtW's impact has largely threated people as much as you can think: thousand of 1/1 are enough to scare anyone, so a lot of people, seeing Shamans, Confidants and Drains, would prepare dealing with Goblins.
- This deck, such as any other 4C-C one, is a Y.Will.dec . Killing people with ToA is preferred, IMHO, when planning to repeteadely hit opponents with critters until Y.Will will come down.

I will add EtW maindeck, if B.Wish would not help me winning as much as I think.
EtW, infact, is far better maindecked than ToA when trying to win with a so much *mixed* winning plan.
On the other hand, B.Wish and ToA ( despite being both off.color ) are good when you can abuse of Walk or when your Repeals/Brainstorm would have helped you rising the storm count up to 4 or 5.
Without Recoup/Walk/Gifts, EtW's plan isn't so strong. You cannot always put Goblins in play and then finish the opponent. You are often going to give him another turn to recover, instead.




You can consider adding LoA or Mana#25, too.
I observed for a long time German people perform well with 26.mana.fonts.decs too but I think that your metagame is so much control o aggro.control oriented that it could be difficultly replicated almost elsewhere. In every place Wastelands and Smockestacks and Drains are huge, there are only a thing a control.dec can do in order to survive: *don't miss a land drop*. People who are mastering control strategies usually prefer trying to win in flood situations because of their own game skill but flood still remain one of the worst way to lose balanced games. I added Repeals and Confidants. In a deeper perspective, their presence can be weighted as a balance for the *missing* mana fonts. Their best effect is not to *stall* in topdeck position and to continuosly surf through the deck searching for solutions or bombs.

If you evaluate this perspective, Brainstorms, Confidants, Repeals and Fetchlands will thin the deck as much as you need to both HAVE lands in play and AVOID flood/screw. Their own initial mana development is really low and they are good even if you bounce your own mox to draw cards or if you risk an U.Se against Wastelands.dec in order to maximize your own FUTURE spells. While Color.screw is possible, even with 6 fetches, I never performed mana.screw in test. This isn't an *end-all* statement, but I'm to wise to pick up a deck that can autolose games because of mana.




Denial pressure made by this deck isn't so strong in a long term perspective. It would help you unbalance game situations, if you can contemporarily put pressure with Strip/Titan/Shaman/Y.Will. Otherwise, all those control board elements aren't game ending. On the other hand, trying to play a good control deck with maindecked CoWs, at now, is





I played, until now, an UB controlcombo deck. I pack in Timetwister because I NEED something can possibly regrowth my discarded Y.Will or, more generally, reshuffle all my previously gone resources. At now, I was weighting the possibility to add Gifts/Recoup to this deck. It will have dramatically added other control elements of the commonly used MDGifts.decs or ControlGifts.dec, so I rejected this idea. Without Green, the only really good thing could help me recovering from bad situation, is Timetwister. I need to put ALL my balls out in order to play Twister again Tier1s, but I discovered that the rest of the deck can help me play *asymmetrical* twisters: Shaman would force opponents to shuffle back moxen, Titan/Strip don't help him avoiding draw lands and, if you are playing G2 and G3, T.Crypts would deny him of almost half of his deck in a single shot.

Evaluating the impact of Timetwister in this perspective, IMHO, isn't worth is addition... BUT...
because of Critters damage, because of Repeals and because of the possibility to kill people via ToA, I FELT the need of this possible BOOST. Which spell can give you 7 cards without drawbacks? Not a better or undercosted one!!!

When would I play Timetwister?... uhm.. not always, not frequently, but when it is worth the risk and can let me save myself or win in a single turn with 7 new fresh cards.






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hi all,

I start from the bottom, with comments and possible explainations about mine and your writings.



I noticed different thought among the ones answered here.
The argument is pretty simple and fully argumentable.

If you take it alone, in a good mixed metagame, CoW itself is good and can prove to be solid protecting your own mana base.
The problem arise only when you try to put it in a SLOW deck, with a SLOW friend ( Stripmine ) and with FAST&FURIOUS opponents.
The nuts consist on a CoW with a tutor for an answarable Stripmine.
You need a full turn in order to POSSIBLY kill one of his lands.
If he build the deck in a good way, you have to protect yourslef from his OWN subsequent turn.
He can build a stable mana base simply pulilng out moxen and without missing a land drop.
They can Walk into another turn and simply neglect your own effective denial recursion for another unexpected turn.
On the other hand, if you have CoW out, you can be tapped out and with a single FoW in hand.

Is it STRONG? Yes.
Is it NEEDED? No, especially because the deck consist on a crucial COOL way to optimize a "paradenial" strategy without the need of Maindeck CoW.
Titan kill opponents lands faster than CoW+Strip and Stripmine can be tutored and recurred when needed, in order to slow down a bit opponents.

Is it BETTER than a fully and stable Strip recursion? Of course not!
Is it FASTER than the previous described game situation and is it less clunky? OF COURSE YES!

Which is the WORST among the problems a good 4ccontrol.deck has? Be predictable, static and ... uhm... SLOW!
I added as much control elements I can choosing them ONLY among the ones that effectively DO SOMETHING when I resolve them.

Am I going to put in it DSC and CoW? HELL, NO!
Why? Because you have to sometimes tap you out with some amount of mana.
Has this mana development a cool effect once used for them? NO!
Are they game ending the subsequent turn? HELL, NO!!!
Are they predictable and easily answerable? HELL, YES!!!

Sadly... I have to regret the use of CoW, even if I miss it sometimes, when the game slow down and when I have random of subpar opponents.
Maybe, a single Tutorable CoW can be added in side, for stability reasons.




You are true about the possibility to lose one or two lands when hitting with Titan.
On the other hand, I have to describe you the game situations WHEN, I have to abuse of Tinker as fast as I can and for porpouses FAR different rather than killing people with 7/10.

PitchLong, TPS and GoodControl decks have EXTRASTRONG mana bases. 2x Swamp or Multiple Islands and a lot of fetches, make my stripmine a null denial effect and shaman only a noisy man, rather than a Bomb. Against them, you have to put out balls and put a fast Tinker. Is DSC the right way to deal with them? Of course no. They can bounce it WHENEVER they want, possibly even needing to tutor for a solutions. It is hit by ANYTHING Combo and ControlCombo decks, usually pack in. For these reasons, I have to fetch for Islands, wait their first or second lands drop, put out a Tinker and STEP THEM BACK OF 2 TURNS IMMEDIATELY, stealing a Swamp/U.Sea and an Island in a single shot! Is this game over? Of course not, but you are heading the game from a superior point of view! You negate them the possibility to abuse of stable mana fonts. A resolver Titan, translate itself in at least into two times walks for you, while DSC would have been nothing more than a noisy fly to bounce back.

It is perfect to deal with UW and UWB Fish decks too. They need their own lands FAR MORE THAN you. They have to resolve M.Mage and Confidants, both colors out, they will lose ALL their lands in a single kick and they have to wait for other mana fonts from a deck with an unusual low mana count. If they don't keep a StP or a Bouncer in hand, they suddenly LOSE the ability to fast deal with 7/10 that instantly can be compared with DSC, when racing people without mana at their disposal.

Of course, more the game went on, and far more are the possibility that you have had the need to resolve both Shaman and Confidant, doubling the possibility to lose a Volcanic or an Undergroound. The deck, on the other hand, is STUDIED to pretty well perform with 2 or 3 mana fonts on board. Confidants and Repeals and Brainstorms are FAST way to search for Fetches and Fetches themselves will protect you from losing your own lands: simply don't search for lands as soon as they are put on board, especially if you are optimizing your plays to resolve a cool TinkerForTitan.

Feel free to add DSC in that slot, but my reasoning are far wiser than they can appear to a quick glance.
I usually play with DSC main and Titan on board in almost ANY other deck.
This version of 4c-c can support the change that I made from side to main: you would enhance the strenght of a "so-so" spell ( such as Tinker can be considered in a pure control deck such as this one ).







As i previously state, I want things that can functions by themselves.
EtW and Teferi are, IMHO, good replacing for Tinker and Titan.
Even Meloku, can be tried in Teferi Slot, too.
Those cards, are really good when you are back and you have to win.

Feel free to exchange winners configuration as much as you can in order to find the BEST configuration.
At now, I would keep Timetwister maindeck, I will keep B.Wish for *alternate winning conditions* and I can think to abuse of only two other slots for additional winners.
If you think about HOW the deck usually perform, Shamans and Confidants usually bring opponents down in life and additional kill conditions are *incidental*.
If you are going to steal some lands and some artifacts, if you are going to draw cards freely, THEN, you can even win your own Penis! ... especially if opponents are girls

On the other hand, both Meloku, Teferi and EtW are cards worth trying.
I tested them in different deck and I LOVE THEM ALL SINGLEHANDLY.
For this deck, I simply choose to play the one that, IMHO, seems to HELP more on establishing control, with a little mana development ( that is the BEST part of my argument, even if it is the latter: Tinker cost 3 and I have fewer mana fonts than other 4cc decks).





Hi man, nice to be the *good old fashioned lover boy* for you all this time
I would put a bit more emphasis on Titan and Crushed Lands.
I usually don't pull out more than a single Island and ONE Dual land during the first two initial turns.
When you are playing with keeper, you would recognize HOW STRONG would be not to quickly act proactively with lands, because the deck can offer NASTY mana situations, especiallly UNEXPECTED ones. If you are wise, there are really few possibilities that a resolved Titan ............................................................................


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@About 3c-c
I made a new thread, where can be discussed extensively about this strong deck.
Thanks to Zherbus for the help on making these two argument separate.



This is true only if you aggressively make use of different Duals against them since first turns.
My plan is to establish some sort of control/timegaining against Stax and Fish with Islands, Board Control and as much blue cards I can.
I reshuffle back ( if possible ) coloured bombs and off-color spells at least until I'm sure not to be screwed by opponents Wastelands' recursion or Stifles.
It isn't a simple game. It is a more gambling one and it is OF COURSE based on how broken can I be, compared to them.
Fish isn't broken ( or sort of ) by definition, first turn Confidant ( keeping it alive as much as I can) coupled with Repeals and Drains are enough to make a decent gap.
Stax weapons can be shut down in different ways: C.Wish for gobal bouncers, Repeals on low cc permanents, Shaman on their own mana and so on.
In order to apply this pressure, I need only a single Dual land ( U.Sea for D.Conf and Volcanic for Shaman ). Their own impact on the game would help me recover from the possible subsequent land loss: Shaman will give me *free turns* eating Moxen, Chalices and LowCC.Mana while Confidant, will draw me free cards, without the need of mana and usually, I will replace the land loss from Wasteland quickly.

As much as I described those games, Titan, could seal the game as much as DSC. Otherwise, I will not use it blindly. I can Balance out things before resolving Titan or I can Tutor for other global removals AND THEN call Titan in play. Will I lose meanly more than 1 or 2 lands when Titan hit the board? The very answer is "no". Will DSC be better when resolved during the first or second turns of the games? Of course "yes". As soon as I will drop the Titan-Strip-Shaman plan, I would stop playing this deck. Making the right amount of considerations led me to think that far more than *coloured bombs*, the very motivation about debating on 4cc is about making BOARD CONTROL stronger.

Only playing Red and Black and White you will be able to play such a game.
Cutting colors, would make this plan far less appealing.





These motivations have been partially answered by the previous lines.
In will not put Titan in play with an active Welder out.
For the same reason, I will not play Tinker for Titan against Fish, when they are possibly holding in hand StP and I'm not backuped by a conterspell.
With these statement in mind, you can easily realize how GOOD is Titan with a cleared board against Fish. It will KILL their own Tundra. No more Apprentice abilities, no more easy M.Mage, no more Disenchant effects and so on. Againt stax it isn't stellar, especially compared with DSC, because stax had a lot of *fat men* that can compare with him.
On the other hand, if you play the control game against Stax, sculpting your own mana base loading the board with Islands ( and maybe Volcanic for Shamans ), you will see how few the differences are, especially during middle game. Against Stax, I prefer playing Angels or Soldiers.




It isn't exactly the right comparization, but I appreciate the comment.
CoW isn't clearly a first turn key spell, while D.Confidant is here IN ORDER to be played during your first turn.
Both cannot be used with some utility before the susequent turn, but WHILE during your second turn D.Confidant will replace itself, fixing your mana, scultping your hand and adding spells, CoW isn't as much strong almost ANYTIME. CoW will thin your deck and establish your mana base, but ( adding it as a singleton ), will cost you a tutor or a full turn. When it is usually cast? Not before than 3 or 4 turn. When you agree on *losing* a full turn? Is it better to lose the first or the third?
You will agree with me that, for a control deck, losing the third will be deadly, while optimizing the first with a good long term one will be better for sure.



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MaxxMatt